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> Sistem de injectie, M30 2,8 - mono sau multipunct ?
nmg
post Jan 27 2007, 07:00 PM
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Sistemul de injectie pentru motorul M30 de 2800 cmc, L-Jetronic fara sonda Lambda, este monopunct sau multipunct ? Stie cineva ?

LE: sorry, am postat de 2 ori. Rog admin-ul sa stearga acest post.

This post has been edited by nmg: Jan 27 2007, 07:01 PM


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io'sŪ
post Jan 27 2007, 07:08 PM
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multipunct, normal, doar ai cate un injector pt fiecare cilindru (exceptand injectorul de pornire)


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nmg
post Jan 27 2007, 07:52 PM
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Faptul ca exista cate un injector pe fiecare cilindru nu inseamna ca sistemul de injectie este multipunct.
Din cate imi amintesc eu, monopunct inseamna faptul ca in timpul cursei de admisie, injectorul se deschide o singura data. Multipunct, pulverizeaza de mai multe ori.


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xox
post Jan 27 2007, 08:24 PM
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Nope, are dreptate io's multipunct e un injector pe cilindru, monopunct e un singur injector pe galeria de admisie, ceva mai primitiv, deci in loc de carburator ai un singur injector.

PS: Ce zici tu de pulverizare multipla e common rail.. atat stiu despre injectie diesel biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by xox: Jan 27 2007, 08:32 PM


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iulian325
post Jan 27 2007, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (nmg @ Jan 27 2007, 07:52 PM) *
Faptul ca exista cate un injector pe fiecare cilindru nu inseamna ca sistemul de injectie este multipunct.
Din cate imi amintesc eu, monopunct inseamna faptul ca in timpul cursei de admisie, injectorul se deschide o singura data. Multipunct, pulverizeaza de mai multe ori.


io`s right!

de unde ai scos-o ' Multipunct, pulverizeaza de mai multe ori ' ???

L Jetronic

(1974 - ca 1985) - analog electronic fuel injection. Uses a flapper-type AFM, or Air Flow Meter, to measure airflow into engine. It had a much simpler and more reliable ECU than D-Jetronic, due to use of custom-designed integrated circuits. This type of air flow meter is called LMM, LuftMassenMesser, in all Bosch documentation. It was used heavily in 1980's-era European cars [1]. Similar systems have been built under license by Lucas, Hitachi Automotive Products, Nippondenso, and other companies; though their key components look similar to L-Jetronic parts, those systems should not be called L-Jetronic and parts are usually not compatible. The meaning of the letter L is disputed, either it stands just for Luft - air, or it might be just because it is the letter after K in the alphabet, and L-Jetronic came immediately after K-Jetronic.

This post has been edited by iulian325: Jan 27 2007, 08:40 PM
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nmg
post Jan 27 2007, 08:41 PM
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Ok, poate m-am inselat. Nu stiti ca memoria e de genul feminin ? Te lasa cand ti-e lumea mai draga ? smile.gif


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INTERCEPTOR
post Jan 27 2007, 09:36 PM
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pana si pe masina mea este multipunct.doar nu faceau regres:PP


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TiL
post Jan 27 2007, 10:08 PM
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Hmmm, din cate stiu L-Jetronic e monopunct. Adica arunca benzina in acelasi moment prin toate injectoarele, nu in functie de pozitia pistonului. De la motronic in sus e multipunct.


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INTERCEPTOR
post Jan 27 2007, 11:11 PM
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bai mecanicule . i a mai citeste d_jetronic. mpci


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TiL
post Jan 28 2007, 04:00 AM
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M-am lamurit.
http://rb-k.bosch.de/resources/literatur/l...roben/u214e.pdf

Nu stiu pe unde auzisem ca daca ai injectoare pe fiecare cilindru nu inseamna ca-i multipunct, si ca multipunct inseamna de fapt ca fiecarui injector i se comanda separat momentul deschiderii. Tot asa am auzit ca la L-jetronic injectoarele se deschid simultan, deci practic ECU-ul da o singura comanda de deschidere, comanda transmisa tururor injectoarelor.

Chestia cu pulverizarea multipla stiu ca merge doar la injectie directa (deci la common rail si poate la noile motoare pe benzina de la VAG).


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io'sŪ
post Jan 28 2007, 04:34 PM
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mdea, cred ca se facea confuzie intre injectia mecanica (folosita de mercedes si VW in anii "80) si injectia electronica, la injectia mecanica injectoarele pulverizeaza toate odata, la injectia electronica injectoarele pulverizeaza numai atunci cand e nevoie (cu toate ca am vazut pe VW si injectie electronica care pulverizeaza toate injectoarele odata huh.gif -GOLF 2 GTI 8V)
si da , injectia monopunct este un fel de carburator mai evoluat, comandat de un computer care are un singur injector ce pulverizeaza benzina badtaste (9).gif ... un fel de wanker.gif

edit: si ca sa dau exemplu de motor cu injectie monopunct : DACIA BERLINA/NOVA GTI cu motor "pa folie" biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by io`s: Jan 28 2007, 04:36 PM


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TiL
post Jan 28 2007, 08:22 PM
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Tot nu-s lamurit complet. Ma uit pe wikipedia la: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetronic#K_Jetronic
si inteleg ca:

1. injectia mecanica nu doar ca arunca benzina simultan benzina prin toate injectoarele, dar arunca tot timpul. Probabil parametrul regulat de injectie e debitul din injector (presiune variabila), nu perioada de deschidere, ca la L-Jetronic.

QUOTE
K Jetronic
(1974 - ca 1988)- mechanical fuel injection. K stands for Kontinuierlich, i. e. continuous. Different from all other systems in that the fuel flows continuously from all injectors
2. in afara de binecunoscuta injectie monopunct, cu un singur injector, folosita pe foarte multe modele in anii '90 si pe berlina pana de curand, mai exista injectia singlepoint. Probabil asta e tipul despre care spuneam ca deschide injectoarele simultan. Dar nu scrie care-s alea singlepoint...

QUOTE
Mono-Jetronic is different from all other known single-point systems ........


Concluzia e ca L-Jetronic e multipunct, conform likului din postul anterior (care e un pdf de la Bosch).
Intrebarea e care sunt injectiile singlepoint?
Si inca ceva: care sunt motoarele cu LE-Jetronic la BMW?

Presupun ca BMW a folosit doar LE1, pentru ca LE2 nu mai are injector de pornire si cred ca toate BMW-urile cu LE-Jetronic au injector de pornire.
QUOTE
Three variants of LE-Jetronic exist: LE1, the initial one. LE2, from about 1984 on, it has cold start functionality integrated in the ECU and does not need the cold start injector and thermo time switch which was used by older systems. LE3, from about 1989 on.......


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turbocharger
post Jan 28 2007, 09:28 PM
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Dupa cunostintele mele si mai pe romaneste: Injectia de benzina dupa locul in care se produce si numarul de cilindrii pe care un injector ii alimenteaza,se imparte in doua: MONOPUNCT atunci cand un ijector alimenteaza toti cilindri sau grupuri de cate 3 in cazul motoarelor cu mai mult de 4 cilindri prin intermediul unei galerii de admisie cu scopul de a se obtine distante egale de la punctul de injectie si cilindrii,ETC si MULTIPUNCT cand fiecare cilindru este alimentat de cate un injector,asa numita ijectie in poarta supapei.Acum dupa modul in care sunt comandate injectoarele INJECTIA se imparte iarasi in doua:CONTINUA si INTERMITENTA.Injectia mecanica cu distribuitor de presiune,cu taler cea de la vw golf de care aminteati voi sus este de inalta presiune si considerata continua.Cealalta intermitenta este mai des folosita,si este vorba de injectia electronica guvernata de un bloc electronic( calculator).Denumirea de intermitenta i se atribuie tocmai dupa modul cum sunt comandate injectoarele,adica o data la fiecare doua cicluri motor se deschid simultan toate injectoarele. Cat se deschid asta e treaba blocului electronic,care pe baza informatiilor primite de la diferiti senzori,a pozitiei clapetei de acceleratie si asondei lambda comanda un timp optim de deschidere.Nu stiu cat reusesc dar cu cele scrise mai sus incerc sa aduc putina lumina asupra clasificarii injectiilor tocmai sa se evite cazurile cand se poate crede ca o ijectie multipunct poate fi monopunct.Personal cred ca injectia SINGLE POINT e acelasi lucru cu MONOPUNCT. Deci in concluzie injectia monopunct este intermitenta smile.gif
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io'sŪ
post Jan 28 2007, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (TiL @ Jan 28 2007, 08:22 PM) *
Si inca ceva: care sunt motoarele cu LE-Jetronic la BMW?
de pe seria 3 e21 323i, adika motorul M20 6 cil. numai ca are injectie mecanica


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haifisch
post Jan 29 2007, 04:36 PM
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injectia mecanica de pe e21 323i se numeste k-jetronic
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io'sŪ
post Jan 29 2007, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE (haifisch @ Jan 29 2007, 04:36 PM) *
injectia mecanica de pe e21 323i se numeste k-jetronic
da? scuze atunci!
tongue.gif


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georgem
post Jan 29 2007, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE (TiL @ Jan 28 2007, 09:22 PM) *
Tot nu-s lamurit complet. Ma uit pe wikipedia la: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetronic#K_Jetronic
si inteleg ca:

1. injectia mecanica nu doar ca arunca benzina simultan benzina prin toate injectoarele, dar arunca tot timpul. Probabil parametrul regulat de injectie e debitul din injector (presiune variabila), nu perioada de deschidere, ca la L-Jetronic.

Exact, injectoarele pulverizeaza continuu benzina si cantitatea pulverizata e in functie de presiune. Presiunea e reglata de talerul de pe admisia de aer. K-Jetronic am eu pe Audi 80.


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nmg
post Jan 30 2007, 11:09 AM
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Ok, m-am lamurit. Nu stiu de unde am scos chestia cu pulverizarea multipla dar o sa mai sap ... smile.gif

Inca o intrebare: de unde (si daca) se poate regla turatia de mers in gol pentru acest tip de motor ( M30, 2,8, L-Jetronic) ?


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io'sŪ
post Jan 30 2007, 11:49 AM
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adika ralantiul?
da se poate, exista un surub undeva sub burduful de admisie care intra in corpul clapetei de acceleratie (nu stiu daca ai inteles dar am sa caut o poza sa vezi)

edit: am gasit poza

undeva cu aproximatie unde e varful sagetii
Attached Image


This post has been edited by io`s: Jan 30 2007, 11:55 AM


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nmg
post Jan 30 2007, 12:38 PM
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Ok, trebuie sa mai caut. laugh.gif

Poza in schimb nu se prea potriveste cu motorul meu. La mine sunt o gramada de matze pe sub burduful ala si probabil din cauza asta nu l-am vazut.


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